YRN:Forum

From YRN

Structure of YRN

So I'm thinking... what are the main areas we want to focus on with this? I think we do want to have a good deal of Wikipedia-like articles focused specifically on Youth Rights but I think we have more to offer than that as well. Some brainstorming:

'pedia type coverage of all youth rights issues, philosophy, people, organizations, events and history - no doubt this will be the bulk of the site
the law library
dynamic action guides incorporating the experience and skills of multiple authors
- guides on advocating for youth rights (how to lobby, fundraise, speak in public, etc)
- guides on direct liberation (how to get around curfews, get a real education, i.e. doing what you can to get by till that far off day when the law changes)
original sources (articles, editorials, etc all locked down for editing)
archives ('zines, newsletters, pamphlets, flyers, and other historical YR items to preserve forever and collect & organize in one central location for easy reference - should include both plain text and .pdfs of originals)

There may be more I hadn't considered, but these are the 5 (or 6) general conceptual categories that come to mind when I think of YRN. Each I think has a distinct purpose and role to play on this site. Anyhow, that is my general scope and framework for the YRN. I'm especially interested in the non-Wikipedia type content because I think that sets us apart. It is all important to have of course. KPalicz 02:07, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

I agree. The "'pedia" type coverage should be different from WP in that it should be slanted towards the interests of people interested in youth rights. Youth Rights Law Library- great; a Youth Rights Activist Toolbox would be great - the "Dynamic action guides incorporating the experience and skills of multiple authors" could be included therein, as well as guides on advocating for youth rights and guides on direct liberation; original sources - great; and the archives are a gratuitous necessity. Regarding setting the YRN apart, I think as long as we keep articles focused on YR, and as long as we drill into the topics that interest us (see below) we'll be good to go. See [[1]] for an example of a good non-WP wiki. There's "deep" content on the subject area, interesting projects, and its very useful for generalists and experts. - Adam 12:04, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

Scope of YRN

What fits here and what doesn't? I think it'll require some thinking and debate as to how we define this "movement". This will pose especially tricky as we open this project up to more contributors. "Youth Rights" obviously. "Youth Liberation" of course. "Youth Voice" alright. "Youth Empowerment".. starting to get into vague territory, but.. ok. "Youth Service", eh... "Children's Rights" bleh... Tricky.

And then we have groups like SSDP, SNCC, and SDS, do we claim them as part of our "movement"? Would they, themselves ever claim to be part of us or are we seeking to just acquire their legacy? Should we acquire it?

How do we handle education? Are we just going to cover deschooling, unschooling, and other radical, alternative theories and models of education or the classic, monolithic public school and compulsory education system? Will we/should we maintain a neutral tone or not? How will we touch on things like child psychology over the last few decades - especially studies and viewpoints that don't at all see eye to eye with us?

Important questions that need answers. KPalicz 02:07, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

I think the YRN should define itself. If users come in and put up info on children's rights, that might actually serve to strengthen the effort - simply because they would be co-opting our language, and exposing them to the depth of content here may expand their interests. But the other part becomes the YRN's responsibility: All editors and particularly the admins should always maintain responsibility for making all content YR-focused. So anyone can - and should - contribute here. That's how this thing will grow out. Let's not limit the content topics - but let's keep every topic/article/interest contributed focused on YR.

Regarding education, I would proponent that simply addressing alt theories/models of ed would be overly simplistic and kinda pedantic. We need to speak to the "every youth", meaning that if folks are in/reliant/stuck/imprisoned in traditional schools, let's provide avenues for how YR can be realized in those environs, too.

There is no such thing as a neutral tone. There is no such thing as neutral. Those editors on WP who are openly and aggressively anti-youth topics are clearly not neutral. But even the tone used in those articles - even the best of them - is subjective and non-neutral. Let's not make that a goal here, or pretend that we aspire to do other than what we're committed to doing.

About your concerns regarding topics, I really believe that we just open the doors and let folks walk through however they will. All content has to related to YR; other than that, let's let this thing be organic. Editors are for contributing, admin are for relevantizing. (I do like WP's policy on democracy.) - Adam 12:15, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

If I can butt in for a moment, I'd like to agree with Adam: let's not pretend we're being neutral. Beyond the general YR activists using this wiki, there will be students looking for references for papers, reporters looking for angles, and parents looking for education alternatives; by operating under the facade of a neutral stance on any issue will only detract from the successful use of this amazing resource.

I also think that creating a well-rounded history of youth activism is incredibly important in creating a solid foundation for our work. You have a hard time seeing where you're going if you don't know where you've been already. ;] This means including SDS, even with their violent history. They had some major successes; I'm sure some could be applied to YR. -Jess

SDS itself does not have a violent history, per se; Weather Underground, well, that's a different story. But yeah, Jess, I agree with you. Their history is our history, and we have to draw these together - I've been trying to do that for a long time. Likewise, other groups to draw in do include the children's rights activists that Alex dislikes so well. There was a time when their agenda was common with the youth rights agenda, and when it was not a capitalistic mess reliant on paternalistic attitudes and platitudes. We have to claim that history. That discussion in general could make a fascinating "schism" page, in line with the others here. Alex, let's draw out any attributable beefs with other movements where YR fits, too: youth voice, free speech, youth empowerment, whatever. The bigger we paint this out, the more effectively we cite it, the more useful the YRN will be outside of our little circle. Along those lines, here's some article I want to add (without just lifting the content from WP - these all need to be made relevant to YR): critical pedagogy, Mother Jones, National Youth Administration, American Youth Union, American Youth Congress, SNCC, History of United States Youth Activism, Youth-led activism, Youth liberation, Youth oppression, Gerontocracy

I'm beginning to think the topics at Main Page should be splintered off into their own component pages, rather than left as bookmarks on the Table of Contents. We could keep the ToC for posterity, but navigating that whole big thing is a bit daunting. Also, is there a sysops page where I can put a message to you and Adam and whoever else all at once, rather than each of you at once, or should I just stick em up on the Youth Rights Network:Forum page? - Freechild Project 22:40, 11 April 2007 (CDT)

Lets just use the Forum page I suppose. As for the Table of Contents... maybe you're right. Now that I've figured out how to edit the sidebar, we can split things into different sections and navigate that way. I've also put all categories into a category and link to that directly. So if we categorize everything, and do it well, then that could serve as an efficient table of contents directory itself. We just need to figure out how to divide this all up as best as possible. KPalicz 23:04, 11 April 2007 (CDT)

About dividing all this up, that's the wonder of the Wiki - each thing can be listed in multiple places at once, so that nothing is confined. We could just make everything Meta heading a category, and then organize articles under that meta-heading, even with sub-categories. Or something like that. - CommonAction 18:42, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

Standards

Can we make it a goal to YRN-ify every article here? Meaning that every lead paragraph should have a statement to the effect of why that particular article topic is relevant to Youth Rights. Maybe not every single one, because we don't need to belabor the point - but as a goal to keep in mind as we build this thing out. Thoughts anyone? - Freechild Project 17:53, 11 April 2007 (CDT)

I think it is a good idea. We certainly want to cultivate a distinct voice from Wikipedia (even as I'm lifting articles from Wikipedia). KPalicz 19:59, 11 April 2007 (CDT)

And that's really the point - cultivate, then germinate. We must grow these things into beautiful flowers, the little gardeners we are... - Freechild Project 22:36, 11 April 2007 (CDT)

I don't know why you are signing things as Freechild Project, CommonAction and Adam, but if things were to ever come up for a vote, you don't get three votes. ;) KPalicz 01:29, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

Just messing around with the "preferences" tab. - Adam 11:23, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

The "rules" for articles?

So is the only real "rule" for articles that the editor uses an attributable connection to YR? Meaning that they didn't just make something up, or if they did its so obvious that anyone can see? And what is the decision-making process for deciding that kinda thing on the YRN? - Adam 18:59, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

Volunteer Recruiting

Okay guys, when can I get rolling? Alex said to give about a week for updating and getting a list together last Sunday. What can I do to get things ready to go? :] JC 09:42, 22 April 2007 (CDT)

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